that the fiscal cliff would not be the real issue. the debt ceiling would be. you see this as taking us close to the brink, again. could it take us over the brink? >> potentially. keep in mind that we have two other -- in addition to the debt limit, we have, in effect, two other fiscal cliffs approaching. one is the appropriations bills for 2013, which have not yet been finished and we'll have a government shutdown unless they have, unless those bills are enacted and the second is the $1.2 trillion sequester, which triggered the fiscal cliff, but was only delayed by two months and that runs out, as well. so, we have the debt limit, the sequester and the appropriations. all essentially coming due at more or less the same date. my assumption is and i guess everybody else's is, is these will all be rolled into together into one massive punt the ball down the road bill. >> jeff, if any of this does end up in the supreme court, you know, the administration does some kind of legal maneuver. what's the history of this one. an executive legislative battle. do they say,